SPEAKERS: Abrachan , Varghese Daniel

Abrachan:

Welcome back to the next episode of Wrench podcast. Hi, I’m a Abranchan. I’m a project management domain expert, and have 30 plus years of experience in project management, training and consulting, covering predictive project management, as well as agile. At present, I work at wrench Academy, the education division of Wrench solutions. In today’s podcast, I have the pleasure of talking with Varghese Daniel, technology innovator and CEO of Wrench solutions. Daniel has the last 25 years been helping companies in engineering and construction industries, like Tatas, LNT, AECOM, digitize their business processes, and to date Wrench technology has been deployed on our 10,000 projects across 32 countries. In today’s episode, we talk about why EPC organizations in the post COVID era should switch to a digital project management office or digital PMO and what benefits it will bring to the organization? Hi, Mr. Daniel, you’re a person with tremendous experience in helping others to really succeed with their digital PMO implementations. So, if you can answer my questions, that’ll be really beneficial to the industry. People who are really looking for implementing digital PMO. Actually, who needs digital PMO in the EPC space?

Varghese Daniel:

So, any organization that is executing a project, needs a PMO. So, what is the role of a PMO ? PMO is an organization or a  set of or a group that has been identified to monitor the projects from a sheduled cost quality standpoint, and inform the investor or the owner,if things are going out of track, so there we call it as a third eye of the owner.Now, second is there are multiple stakeholders in a typical capital project execution, you need to make sure that everybody does their part and there is a seamless communication between everybody. So the PMO’S responsibility is to make sure that  communication as per the project quality plan happens, and there’s no deviation in it, so that , it should not affect quality. And third is the role is also to protect the owner, by keeping all the documentation and all the communication all the information communicated during the course of the project maintained in a central system, so that easily accessible, so that in case of any dispute any claim, they can pick up the relevant information. So if you are an owner company executing a project, you need a PMO. The only thing is, instead of putting a lot of people to run the PMO, you optimize the number of resources by using the digital technology and that is why we call it digital PMO. Now, the same thing applies if you are a contractor or EPC contractor who has won a large job and you’re required to deliver a project for your customer, you have the exactly same situation. You know, as an owner, you have a defined budget or a cost, you have a defined schedule, and you need to make sure the project that you’re delivering is delivered with quality. So, say for the same purpose to coordinate the activities inside if there are delays, you need to have a PMO to manage those projects. So any organization which is doing a project, be it an owner, be it a contractor, be it a PMC, or even a consultant where his role might be limited to only the engineering part or the supervisory part, they all need to manage the project. And this PMO facilitates in being the third eye for them with maximum digital technology used and that’s why we call it a digital PMO.

Abrachan:

Now, this physical PMO which is the predecessor to the digital PMO that was in existence for now decades.Now, digital PMO automates some of the current practices of physical PMO. What are the typical challenges here?

Varghese Daniel:

So, how a typical PMO works is a out there, the PMO actually defines a stakeholder responsibility, they create the project charter, they define a shedule, or they take the schedule from the owner, detail it out, they chase the contractors to get their schedules, they will integrate the schedule so that there is an integrated schedule inside this. And after that, they capture the progress weightages, and then they put a lot of people on site to actually see the physical progress or talk to concerned people to get to know the status. And these information are updated inside a system, they could have an internal system, it could be an Excel sheet, it could be even in planning software in which they update it manually. And that is how they report the status and delays and progress delays. And many a time progress is a perception, you know, I feel it is 50% over I report 50%. You know, there is no predefined definitions, and it’s very subjective. So all these capturing status, capturing progress, all these are done manually and updated manually. The second important thing is the vendor collaboration part between the owner contractor, consultant, PMC, PMO, and all this, these could be done on a platform like a SharePoint or some kind of online platform or online system in which everybody post data. So it becomes a repository rather than a system which drives the process flow. So you will find all the information there. But the most important thing is, is it driving the process, which means that once  somebody’s work is over, does it automatically go to the next person, that person has got a certain timeframe within which he has to  finishes work, these are all done manually. And this is done by email. So there is a central repository where all information is captured. And emails are used for communicating with all these people. So that is how things get managed. So when you look at it, they are using these tools like email, they’re using a planning software, they have a reporting system, so when you see they have different different systems, but the most important thing, you know, and  due to is the biggest challenge they face is if you want an information, you go into one system, and none of these systems are talking to each other. So it’s just a silo. So you need to go into multiple applications to do your job, and you don’t have a centralized information based on which you can make decisions. So, that is a biggest challenge of a physical PMO’s operation which uses digital tools, but not a digital PMO.

Abrachan:

Right. So they are relying on digitized  documents,

Varghese Daniel:

it is correct, they are using digital information, but the information is not integrated. And the reporting and the information that you need to make decisions is not integrated, and is not real time. it is manually popped. So there is a lot of manual labor involved. There’s a lot of subjectivity and which is why such monitoring fails.

Abrachan:

Now what are the true benefits of implementing the digital PMO?

Varghese Daniel:

So the first thing is transparency. Across the board, People know what needs to be done, what has been done, what is the progress, what is the status, etc, Okay, second is accuracy, the information that is there is absolutely accurate. So that they know, this is what is a status, it is a status, you know, you have no subjectivity in that. Third, as you may know, you can get this information anytime. you’re not dependent on people updating the status. So it’s available at any time anywhere. you know, because I mean people are on the move, and more. And also what happens is the system actually is real time. So which means it tells people this is what you’re supposed to do, it sends reminders to people if they have not done their job, it notifies them in advance that these are the things that we you are expected to do. So it’s sort of driving the project instead of just having a system and then you need to figure out what it is. It’s like a to do list which is getting updated as the work goes on. And if things are not happening, it sends you notifications escalations. So it’s a very real time kind of system, which saw the benefits are huge, where the earlier you can make a corrective action, the earlier you can catch up on your project. So the system enables you to be very proactive. And that is a biggest benefit of this. And you don’t have to ask for information. It is all self service, whatever you want, you get to know and whatever information you have asked for which means whatever notification you ask for, it comes to you. You don’t have to go and get it. So it helps you eventually as I said, it makes you very proactive, so that you’re able to take early corrective action and preventive actions.

Abrachan:

So, what I understood is again, ideally, they should be driven by the owner organization ?

Varghese Daniel:

Or PMO, hired by the owner or the PMC was called to manage the project, it could be either any of them, so the owner can implement and make them work on the system, or the owner can say, I want this, I want a real time system to show me what’s the status is, so, the PMO or the PMC adopts the system to do their job.

Abrachan:

And also that if the owner is not really insisting, if it is a major contractor, he also can initiate

Varghese Daniel:

 Yeah, so the owner can mandate that I need to get status reports on a daily basis, I want it real time, I want information to be captured from the source. So then automatically the contractor who’s supposed to execute the project can have the system and become a know as I said, the first benefit is transparency and become transparent with the owner.

Abrachan:

Yeah, and see most of these organizations, they will have their legacy systems in place already. Now, how do we integrate? Or should we replace the entire system with the digital PMO? Or will it be meshed together?

Varghese Daniel:

Yeah, so ideally, what do you mean by legacy systems is, everybody any organization doing a capital project or any fairly large project will have a planning software could be Primavera MS Project, whatever. So that is where the plans are defined. Now, they could have a repository, like a SharePoint or some tool in which all the communications are there, all the schedules, the contractor schedule, a lot of it is maintained on Excel, with drill downs, and wages and all defined, you know, through that as a reporting part. Then some people may even create a reporting software, where they take all this data from different contractors, and push the data into this reporting system, bring the shedule from the planning software, so that you can get a report or a dashboard, when all this data comes in, but there’s all this data goes in manually, okay. So, then a digital PMO also looks at other factors like quality, safety, snag, risk, all these factors. So, you have systems, which are managing quality systems, which are managing snags, which is similar managing safety. Now, if a quality issue, you know, does not get cleared, that can affect your project, it can affect your schedule. Now, the different systems that you have, if you’re comfortable using those system, like if you’re using a planning system like primeira, we integrate with that. We  don’t do what the Primavera does, because we know that Primavera or MS Project is the best tool for planning. So, we pick up the data from that, and then we integrate this data with the your design tools, where you have a BIM model, and then you want a model to be  captured and the status of your project to be updated on the module. So, we become like an intermedium or we become a platform which speaks to different applications in the backend and connects them so that you get the benefit of a digital PMO and if you do not have a system for any of those, we have a module which replaces that. So, you could have your existing applications integrated and then get the benefit of a digital PMO. What is it ? proactive, you know, proactive monitoring of the project and real time and  if your systems are not existing in certain areas, you can have wrench module, specific module implemented that so that you can digitize it and automate it. So, which means it is not a system where it will replace everything, it can come in there, it can integrate with it, coexist with you and help you drive the project.

Abrachan:

Now, many think that okay, this is for very large organizations. So, can small project organizations or one standalone project within an organization, start implementing start leveraging this.

Varghese Daniel:

So, it all depends on how critical is that project for you. if you set a target that yes, this project has to get completed, and I have to have a, it’s important for me to get this done. That project is important for you. So you have to have a digital PMO to help you to manage a project. Now, size doesn’t matter. Every project is multi stakeholders. It is got multiple, you know, lots of information exchanged. It’s got a schedule, it’s to be done in a cost. So the parameters are exactly the same. So as I said, it all depends on how critical do you think is the project that you’re doing. If you think that it is critical or important for you, ideally, I would say even the smallest of smaller projects should be managed through a system. So, it takes away a lot of hard labor and the stress involved in chasing a project you get a real time system, which tells you what is your status, what is your progress, what is your, you know, all the related information you get it.

Abrachan:

See, whenever we switch to a new system, it is always a dilemma to know whether to implement it in the most critical project or in a nice to do project, because there are organizational risks associated with this transition. What do you what do you recommend?

Varghese Daniel:

So, from our experience, we never do a project which is a dummy project, we always do it on a live project, because what we believe is proof of the pudding is eating. So, when you actually implement it on a project, you will know what changes are required, what you know, what adaption you need to do, and you will do it only when it’s a live project. So, there is absolutely no risk in implementing a system on a live project, because what is Option B, you anyway not having a fully digitized system. So it is just not as efficient as a digital PMO system. So might as well use the benefit of putting the system on a live project and get it running straight away. So that you are getting a faster return on investment. So and also, many of the processes get cleaned up when you actually execute the work through a system. Because in a digital system, it is digital, it’s either zero or one there’s no in between. So, it tells you  which methodology to be followed when a situation comes and that gets implemented then you can standardize that.

Abrachan:

So in a typical project lifecycle, at what stage the owner should start thinking about implementing digital PMO?

Varghese Daniel:

 see right now, the most critical stage in any project is the execution phase of the project, okay, you can even start from the conceptual stage of the project and then go into the pre tendering process, then it goes to the execution and the handover. So, you could have a system which is managing the full lifecycle, but the most critical thing where the delay really happens is when you’re committed money, and you have a schedule. So, you want to make sure that that gets done correctly. So, that is where people start off and then they expand it  to the start to capture the proposal stage onwards till this and to the closure and asset management side, to the other side. So, you could consider that the best thing is to solve the larger problem, which is managing the execution part of the project

Abrachan:

And  what is the preparatory work required to implement digital PMO?

Varghese Daniel:

So, the inputs that we need for a digital PMO are, the first thing is every project has to have a schedule, it should have a WBS. It should have definitions of stakeholders, charter. So, what we have done as we have taken the PMBock process of a project management lifecycle. And we have defined that these are the prerequisite inputs that we need and every organization has got it . only thing is it’s available with different people or is lying in different formats. Now, we bring it into the system and make that as part of a policy that when we set a project we need to have this information. Now, once you get all that information, since a system integrates all those information, the system starts driving those data and that is how the real time information that we get to where the plan versus actual comes only if all this information is there. So this will have definitions of what is your quality checking parameters, what are your safety logs, all these are known, it’s defined. Only thing is it’s in different departments. Now we bring everything together , integrated on a project. So that the digital PMO manages all the parameters of us for the successful execution of a project. So you don’t have to find something it is there. Now if it is not there, we have a standard process which is a global standard. You can adapt it , which is a best practice for the industry.

Abrachan:

So can we implement this in in a current running project?

Varghese Daniel:

Absolutely. As I said, that is the best, because then what you do is, it’s truth. You want to make sure the project is done. So you have a plan, you have a stakeholder, you get everything, you know, identified,

Abrachan:

 what I’m trying to say is, the project has already started.

Varghese Daniel:

 Yes. So what happens is we may need to do some backfilling , to get to the latest status, which is a challenging job sometimes. So but what happens is, the earlier you can implement it on a project, the faster you get control of the project, because if you don’t have a system, monitoring your project, you will go out of control. So there is additional work required to backfill and get the latest status, and then you’re on the system. So it is definitely possible to actually implement it on a project, even if it is 50% complete.

Abrachan:

 Now, these days, most of the organizations, they would love to implement it in the cloud. At the same time some organization insist it to be in their own premises. So how do we take care of this?

Varghese Daniel:

So one of the key concerns are security. Okay, so for an effective implementation of digital PMO, you need to make sure that all the stakeholders on the project are on the system. There’s no point in, somebody sitting in the center, okay, taking data from people on the phone and updating it. So you are basically making every stakeholder responsible for what they agreed to do first, and then chasing them to make sure that they do what they agreed, and then capturing the evidence of what they did. So that the truth is there and your status are real. And it is not something where you’re presenting it for the dashboard. So in a project environment, as all the stakeholders are in different parts of the world, and they are working from different places, everybody is not sitting in one place, it is absolutely necessary that access to this information on the internet, is absolutely critical. And now once you’re hosting it on the internet, then security comes into picture. So today, you know the platforms like Microsoft Azure, which is what our standard platform for delivery is, these platform provide you all the, you know, security required, so that the authorized person can only access the information, they are authorized to access. And all this information resides inside there. So there is no issue about firmware, or any kind of ransomware or, you know, somebody sneaking into your system or intruding into your system, it is it’s all been taken care of. Because today, I mean, what is the most important thing for us it’s money. If the money is today completely man managed by applications which are set up by the banks, it’s also on the cloud, if that is secure, this is nothing. So you can be rest assured that it has to be hosted on a cloud, it is absolutely secure. And you can be, you can work with the best performance if it is hosted on the cloud. So it’s not necessary to host it locally, what you could do is after the project is over, you can bring it locally for archiving purposes. And there’s no more collaboration happening between people, it’s only within the office, that time you can bring it and keep it safe within your organization.

Abrachan:

So what is the lifecycle of implementing digital PMO Within a project? Where do we start? And where do we end?

Varghese Daniel:

So the first starting point is we need to get, I mean, the the product, I mean, our solution isn’t out of the box solution, you know, it’s already set up with all the stuff and all the integration built in. Now we need to get your input on the schedule, if you have different stakeholders, you have the definitions of the roles of the different stakeholders, you have your project charter, you know, and then you start looking at your WBS, you look at your schedule, you know, all these data gets added up. So that’s the starting point. Then the processes are predefined, how do you do engineering? How do you do procurement? How do you do construction? So, it is either there, you can adopt those or if you have specific you know processes which you do, which is deviating from this, then you can configure those and change it to suit that process. Then the outputs which is, see basically, what is the input, what is the process, what is output, okay, the output or the dashboards and reports is already there. Now, if you’re happy with those dashboards and report, which it gives you, helps you to make decisions and helps you to take early corrective action, don’t touch it. But if you want to have slides that you want it, because ultimately everything is data driven, and it’s all driven with that information. You can modify these dashboards to give you exactly what you would like to see in order to help you make decisions faster.

Abrachan:

So what kind of support will be provided during the usage of the system on live projects?

Varghese Daniel:

So what happens is our role comes in at as two stages. One is we help you set up the system because we are an expert in our software, and we understand the best practice in the industry. But  we want to understand how does a company operate, or run their projects. You know, based on that, we will configure the application to suit your way of working or adopt this best practice by training your resources. So that is where the first stage, so we’ll handhold you through the process till the first project is set up correctly, and all your people are trained. Okay, so that’s one part. Second part of it is while you’re using the software, ideally, we can administer the system for you. But many companies have project managers, they would like to administrate because they don’t want to add additional cost. So we could train them so that they can administer the system. And  we provide you 24 By seven 365 days support to those people who are actually administering the system. So that way, if they get into trouble, or they need any help, they can talk to us and get that support. And that way,  any critical life project, you always have a backing and support to make sure that you’re not affected in your projects, by not getting the right information when you need it.

Abrachan:

So do you provide any sort of subscription model  for this?

Varghese Daniel:

Absolutely, this whole line of software is licensed on a subscription based model, you can license it for your organization, you license it for a project, or, you know, you can have it for an enterprise, depending on how you want to roll this out.

Abrachan:

And data migration is another critical factor we need to plan for. So how do we do this actually ?

Varghese Daniel:

yeah,  as I said, if you’re implementing a system midway, or you have implemented a system on a new project, and you want to bring your legacy data back in the system, because that’s your knowledge, that’s it, that’s always a challenge. So what we have done is we have provided different tools, we have built different tools, which will automate this whole process and make it more flexible. So that you are able to actually have this system set up the way you want to run it. So the data migration is done in a very  automated way. But it all depends on how good is your data. Now, when we have a new structure of data, which is defined here, if that data element is not there, then you have the data entry, which is there. If it is already there, it only needs to be formatted, it’s much easier. So the system can format and bring it up.

Abrachan:

and if an organization is doesn’t have systems in place, how do they, how do you help them to put everything in place and then implement this ?

Varghese Daniel:

So they are the best possible organizations for us, because we already have the best practice in it. All they have to do is just start using the system on the project, you know, this system will tell you what are the prerequisites, those are all available, as I told you in every project, put those data inside so that at least we can avoid , we don’t have to go through the process of migration, you can keep everything in status quo of whatever was there and straightaway start implementing. So that is the fastest and easiest implementation for us.

Abrachan:

And what was the fastest implementation time for you?

Varghese Daniel:

So we could rollout the system, you know if an organization has just got basic structure, they don’t have many integrations, we could implement the system in a span of four weeks. So what happens is, once we set up the system, we give it to the users, give them training, they start using it, they give us feedback, you take the necessary, you know, modifications in need. So most of the time, what happens is these people who are going to use a system can only give you feedback when they use it. So there’s no point in taking sign offs on paper and all that. They need to visualize it. So our methodology of doing is roll it out, give them the system and then take their feedback and you know, take the necessary corrective actions based on this.

Abrachan:

Yeah, that’s, that’s great. So thank you very much for enlightening me on all these topics. And I’m sure that the audience also will benefit.

Varghese Daniel:

Right, thank you so much. Thank you. So in fact, as I said, this is a system which is required on every project, because it’s substantially reduces the effort of monitoring a project. It brings everybody accountable for what they’re supposed to do and captures everything, because today the world is moving to a very intelligent, artificial intelligence and machine learning all these are possible only if you have data and data organized in a systematic way and that is what we have facilitated. So this data can be extensively used for actually making better decisions while planning, better decision while execution, and also taking necessary corrective actions during the course of the project.

Abrachan:

Thank you very much.

Varghese Daniel:

Thank you.